Allusionist 1 Ban the Pun transcript

Hear this episode at theallusionist.org/puns.

For Radiotopia from PRX, this is The Allusionist. That's Allusionist, with an "A", not an "I". I can't promise illusions, I can only promise little linguistic adventures for you, the listener, with me, Helen Zaltzman. Coming up in today's show, we'll put the "pun" into "punch myself in the head just to make the wordplay stop". 

To warm-up, here's some word history. And as this is the first episode of the show, let's begin with: "Hello". Or "hallo", "hollo", "hullo", depending on which one you favour. There are even some outliers who say "hillo". Regardless, the term probably started out with the Old High German shout of "halâ", or "holâ", which they used to hurl at ferrymen. This went through various iterations as something you'd bellow at people to get their attention, but the word really got its big break with the invention of the telephone. It was lightbulb fan Thomas Edison who endorsed "hello" as the thing to say when you picked up the phone. The telephone's inventor, Alexander Graham Bell, was keen for people to open with "ahoy". It would have made phone conversations a lot more piratical-sounding. And now, on with the show.

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HZ: Towards the end of 2014, some news broke that devastated everyone around me. China was to ban puns. China has a very rich history of punning. The language is absolutely full of homophones, words and parts of words that sound like other words, and, until now, the people have taken advantage of that in their jokes and idioms and even customs. But the State Administration for Press, Publication, Radio, Film, and Television in China has ordered that, henceforth, all forms of media shall only use literal language. They must strictly only deploy idioms correctly and flush out irregular and inaccurate use of language. 

There are some fairly persistent mutterings that this move is not to shut down jokes, but subversion and criticism of the government. However, the regulator says that allowing wordplay to continue will cause cultural and linguistic chaos to flourish. Whatever it is, from now on, China is only allowed to deal in single entendre. No more puns. Now, despite my admiration for the principle of free speech, I have to admit that when I heard about this part of me thought, "Yeah, you go for it, China." I can't pretend to be a pun fan. I'm not made of stone, I do sometimes admit a few ripe puns myself, and every time I'm on the 432 bus through Tulse Hill and it passes the Thai restaurant "Thaicoons", I laugh. Inwardly. I don't hate all puns. I just hate nearly all puns. Surely the most important thing about a word is its meaning? Whereas that's almost an encumbrance to a pun, which reduces a word down to merely its superficial resemblance to another word. Admittedly, I can try to intellectualise my punner version, but I realise it's probably more visceral, because I spent my formative years growing up alongside the Puntifex himself. My brother Andy. 

[CLIP FROM THE BUGLE]

ANDY ZALTZMAN: I bet Lou Reed's wife couldn't believe it when he broke the news to her that they were gonna do this concert. I mean, she must've had to pinch herself... 

[OVER THE CLIP, STILL PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND]

HZ: Andy's a comedian. Here he is, embarking on one of his notorious pun runs, on his podcast The Bugle. The anguish you can hear in the background belongs to his long-suffering co-Bugler, John Oliver. 

[CLIP FROM THE BUGLE RESUMES]

ANDY ZALTZMAN: ...mastiff had to pinch herself, yep. "Concert for dogs, Lou?" She said, "I know you're avant-garde, but what's the point of that?"

But Lou Reed soon setter straight. He said, "Schnauzer's a time and a place for complaining. This is a great opportunity for us, dear. I terrier, we can't bassett up. I'll put the band together and whippet into shape."

"OK," she said, "but make sure it's a cosmopolitan band. Get an English guy on drums and someone from Tehran on rhythm guitars."

"Hang on, love, I'll just write that down. Pom, Iranian. Anyone else?"

"Yep, for backing vocals, get the lead singer from that influential synth-pop band, Kraftwerk, and maybe that famous American actress and occasional singer who starred in Moonlighting."

"OK, German, Shepherd."

"And on drums..."

"Hang on," interrupted Lou Reed, "dachshund-nuff...". 

[CLIP FADES OUT]

HZ: It goes on. For 40 years and counting. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: There's a simple joy in the absolutely idiotic wordplay, and that has been true in comedy for thousands of years. Aristophanes had quite a few decent wordplays in his stuff.  

HZ: Really?  

ANDY ZALTZMAN: In 400 B.C. 

HZ: Were those puns meant to be experienced through reading, or were they meant to be said out loud? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: All out loud. 

HZ: Right. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: It's a, you know, theatrical performance. 

HZ: Do you think that is still the best way to deliver a pun? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Yeah. I mean, that was, would have been punning to 12,000 people on the side of a hill. 

HZ: If you're not conversant with Ancient Greek to the point where you can understand every idiom, does that mean you can just miss those puns? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to guess it does if you're not an ancient Greek. 

HZ: So in 2,000 years' time, your puns could be just wasted. They might just take them all at single value. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: No, I think you're being very, very premature on that. I mean, they're made to last, Helen. The sort of puns I do tend to be quite contrived.  

[CLIP FROM THE BUGLE]

ANDY ZALTZMAN: We live in a cynical age, John. And like a German research scientist looking at X-ray scans of people's stomachs in an investigation using barium-coated sausages to see how the digestive system works, we do tend to see the wurst in people. 

[CLIP ENDS]

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Oh, I'm not sure there's other forms of comedy in which you could necessarily achieve the same deluge of quips. 

HZ: Mmm. Is that one reason, then, why they're popular? Just because they're kind of easy, and you get a response? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: I don't know if they're necessarily easy, to write a good one, but, yeah, I guess you can see the craft of it. I guess the sort of humour sometimes comes in the obvious contrivance, and a slight disbelief in an audience that someone has bothered to make that contrivance. Part of it is, I guess, them becoming more and more contrived as the sequence progresses. In the puns I do on The Bugle, where, you know, they tend to be, you know, sort of 20 to 40 in a row, in rapid succession.  

HZ: Are you not worried that you're using them all up too fast? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Well, I hope there's not a bottom to that well. 

[CLIP FROM THE BUGLE]

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Soon Laurie was ready to go. "O-kai, do you mind if I tell my friend, you know..."

JOHN OLIVER Oh, shame on you. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: "...you know, the lady from number 35 who you really don't like?"

"What, shih tzu?"

"I wish you wouldn't call her that, dear. That's very rude."

JOHN OLIVER OK, that's good. That is good.

ANDY ZALTZMAN: "But anyway, why don't you like her?"

"Well, 'cos she talks rot, while her huge husband scares me. I mean, he's a big old bastard." Beagle, big old, bastard? 

JOHN OLIVER Ah. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: "Last time you told her about one of my gigs, she just talked about it endlessly at work. She really bored her collie-gues."

JOHN OLIVER OK, yes, that's really good. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: They climbed into their car, to go to the airport, to Australia. "Wow," said, Laurie. "I've had such a great day. It's only still lunchtime.". 

"Hang on," said Lou, suddenly. "We'd better do some publicity for this gig. Can I borrow 20 bucks for some posters for it?"

"Shar, pei me back next week," replied his wife. "Get me a boxer chocolates to say thanks. My purse is on the back seat.". 

"I'll just ridgeback and get it."

[CLIP ENDS]

HZ: How do you feel about the Chinese banning puns. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Where you ban puns, then then you will also ban people.

HZ: How?

ANDY ZALTZMAN: I'm not sure, but it sort of sounds right. I mean, frankly, a government that that bans puns is basically saying, "We don't know what we're doing." This is a desperation measure. It's a panic move against one of the great verbal freedoms known to mankind. And, you know, China is supposedly trying to improve its relations with the West, and yet this is an attack on the very heart of Britishness, really, to ban the pun. It's much easier to go for a wordplay than a genuine expression of emotion, I think, you know, that's a fundamental truth of Britishness, isn't it? One of the most touching wedding speeches I've ever seen, of course, was our own father at your wedding. Generally, the father of the bride speech is very emotional. You know, an explanation of what the daughter means to father, it's a true expression of one of the greatest forms of human love. But our father chose to go with 15 minutes of puns. 

HZ: Human love of wordplay.

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Which in many ways transcended that. Transcended even the concept of love, of parental love.

HZ: How best to describe dad's speech at my wedding? Uh, it was as if someone had turned up his pun setting, all the way to "annihilate". And yes, I laughed until I cried. We all did. And nearly four years later, friends still mention it to me all the time. But, none of us seem to be able to remember what he actually said. I vaguely recall a gag about a dowry of cattle, except it wasn't cattle, it was electric kettle, because dad's mild South African accent renders that vowel ambiguous. Kettle, "cettle".

Even though they're a constant presence in the Zaltzman household, almost like an extra awful sibling, dad's puns are ephemeral. I realise I can't actually remember any. But you've heard Andy's work. So just imagine where he got it from. This guy.

ZACK ZALTZMAN: I find that puns come to me rather than me going to them. It a case of being receptive. I see funny situations, and by swapping one of the key letters in the phrase for another one you create a sort of new identity. 

HZ: So opportunity is everywhere, if you're alive. 

ZACK ZALTZMAN: Oh yes, yes. Some days nothing happens, other days I get a few going, more or less together.

HZ: And has this been consistent throughout your life, or have there been periods where they've not...?

ZACK ZALTZMAN: I've always liked messing about with words. I don't make a special effort to be funny, I find funny things, funny situations. They're sort of quick one-liners you have, then you're gone, so even if it's a bad pun you still get a laugh.

HZ: And once you've created the pun, how long can you keep it going? 

ZACK ZALTZMAN: Not for very long. I move on to the next. 

HZ: He's lying. Some of his puns are bandied around for years. I think some of them were older than I am. Sometimes he claims they get better with age.

When did you first realise you have this gift?

ZACK ZALTZMAN: I wouldn't call it a gift. I think it's just an add-on. As a gift, I can't say that there's any sort of material or other benefits. 

HZ: There could have been benefits, if instead of becoming a sculptor dad had pursued a career as, say, a tabloid headline writer, or a cryptic crossword setter, or a composer of cracker jokes. 

ZACK ZALTZMAN: It helps days go by. 

HZ: Have you considered ever working in some different types of gags than puns? 

ZACK ZALTZMAN: No. No, puns are enough to go on with.

HZ: It's a lifetime's work? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: I'm only as good as the last one. 

HZ: I don't think it's just my dad. I have a theory. I haven't properly, scientifically tested it, but, in my informal sample group, I've noticed punning grows stronger in men when they become fathers. We know that thousands of physical and psychological switches are thrown in mothers at birth. So in dads, maybe puns? Reckon there's anything to this? Anyway, even God the Father can't resist a pun, the Bible is riddled with them. Though they're probably only funny if you're fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Ancient Greek. They get lost in translation. 

Are your children punning yet? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: They've occasionally attempted a pun, or they'll just say something stupid and say, "Daddy, was that a pun?"

HZ: Double meaning is a hard thing to master when you're six and eight. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Yes, true. It's not like being a Olympic gymnast. You don’t have to be brilliant by the time you're six.

HZ: How is their gymnastics coming along? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Well, they're not going to be Olympic gymnasts.

HZ: So I guess it's a good thing they've got the pun gene to fall back on? I mean, they can try to resist it, but it's gonna get all of us in the end.

ZACK ZALTZMAN: I did think of one the other day that was quite good, but I let it go now, I can't remember it. 

HZ: Oh, no. Have you, do you write them down? 

ZACK ZALTZMAN: No, no, no, nothing as elaborate as that. 

HZ: To think of the ones the world will never hear. 

ZACK ZALTZMAN: Yes, [unclear]. 

HZ: Perhaps there is a fundamental element of the human makeup... 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: [Unclear]. 

HZ: ...oh Jesus, it just never ends... that cannot resist puns. Even if intellectually he would like to, physically he can't.

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's, well, there is a medical condition, I believe, called "Witzelsucht", which is the, you know, the unstoppable propensity to make puns.

HZ: Really? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Yes. 

HZ: Is there a cure? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: No, I think it's saturation therapy. You have to make as many puns as possible.  

HZ: Yeah, well, let's see how that works out. 

[CLIP FROM THE BUGLE]

ANDY ZALTZMAN: "...so excited about this gig. If it goes well, I want to take this show to dogs all around the world."

"Well, let's just see how it goes first, love," cautioned his wife. "Don't start thinking about an e-laborador." Elaborate tour?

"Not yet. It's gonna be a logistical challenge anyway. I mean, for a start, they'll have to clean the auditorium, night after a crowd of dogs has poodle over it. And if any promoter asks you to do a gig for cats, I'd be hesitant. Alsatian that offer."

Suddenly, Lou slammed on the brakes. "Cripes! That Indian chef just spilt a load of melted butter on the road." 

JOHN OLIVER: Oh, yeah? What happened? 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: "That was a close cor, gi is the last thing I want to see." 

JOHN OLIVER: Argh! No!

ANDY ZALTZMAN: As they pulled into the airport, they drove past a textile maker who'd fallen into the icy Hudson River and just climbed out. "Look, darling," said Lou Reed, "It's a cold and wet weaver." Bet that was worth the wait. "Cold and wet weaver." 

[CLIP ENDS]

HZ: This episode of The Allusionist was produced by me, Helen Zaltzman. Thanks to Andy Zaltzman, Zack Zaltzman, and Martin Austwick.

This show resides at theallusionist.org, and if you want to chat about words, find @allusionistshow on Facebook and Twitter. I'm also tweeting there as @HelenZaltzman. 

Your randomly-selected word from the dictionary today is…

Gralloch. Noun. The entrails of a dead deer. Verb. Disembowelled (a deer that has been shot).

Try using it in an email today.  

Episodes will be out every other week, and puns will be kept to a minimum. 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: If you're looking for a point in a pun, I think you'll probably listening to it wrong. 

HZ: Although I believe etymologically, "a pun" is from the Latin for "point". 

ANDY ZALTZMAN: Is it?

HZ: It has quite fuzzy origins.